Prophet Temitope Balogun Joshua of the Synagogue Church of
all Nations opens up on multiple controversies surrounding him and his
ministry.
On being humble: If you have passed through what I have passed through, you will even be more humble than I am.
I have good health, and God shows me what I would have been in terms
of sickness and death; it humbles me, and I want to use my good health
for him. At times, God shows me how people are suffering and the thought
that it could have been me keeps me humble. For instance, if I did
anything wrong during this interview, when you may have left, God will
caution me. If I am not humble, I will be out of track. If I was not in
the house of God, I would be one of the touts in the motor parks.
On his ministry being seemingly more popular outside Nigeria than in Nigeria: I want to offer the same prayer for you: that God should make you more popular outside your country than in your country.
Let other countries introduce you to your country. I think that is
better. As it is written in the Bible, a prophet has no honour in his
country. I am not an evangelist or a pastor, I am a prophet. It is the
word prophet that was used in that scriptural passage, not evangelist or
so. If my people had understood the work from the beginning, it could
have affected the glory of God in my life today. If people understand
your vision from the beginning, you may not go far. It is better they
don’t, they will understand later, and by then, you would have been very
strong and God would have strengthened your desire. Praises and
adoration can make you a local champion.
Where are the people that Nigerians praised from the beginning? I can
mention some – even men of God, who are no longer living today, so many
founders – CAC, Cherubim and Seraphim, Church of the Lord and so on. We
should get this understanding that those who were local champions in
the past did not reach international recognition.
Look beyond the ministry job to the secular world, was it Nigeria
that introduced Prof. Wole Soyinka to the world? But when he became a
Nobel Laureate, he became more powerful; when he talks, everyone wants
to listen. Whereas there were some other local champions that even when
they were dying, nobody took their news to CNN. They don’t know them.
God has a way of raising people by throwing the image to the
international community. Even the footballers that are notable became
acceptable to Nigerians when they belong to international clubs. I may
not be accepted by some people in Nigeria but my acceptance in the world
has been announcing me to my world. When you look at the people working
with me, you see that the ratio of Nigerians working with me are not
more than 10 per cent.
On special attraction that brings heads of government to synagogue: You
have said it all, where there is demand, there is supply, and in that
place, there would be enough anointing to do the work. God will not
allow people to go to a place where there is no supply. It is not
possible. I observe that if three chairs are added to this church today,
you suddenly find people filling it and if four are removed, it is just
the number of people that will fill the chairs that will come.
I have studied that from the beginning. Sometimes, when I see some
ministries printing handbills, using signboards to advertise the church,
I say those things are not necessary. God is the one inviting people,
if you allow him to do it, the solution to their problems will be
waiting for them. But if you take it upon yourself to do the
advertisement, people that God is not expecting will come along with
them and there will be crisis and trouble.
You just continue doing your work and leave the advert for God, then
those that God didn’t invite will not come and there will be peace and
tranquillity. You should not go out to start saying ‘I can heal, I can
deliver.’ At synagogue, our critics are our advertisement. They are
people that don’t want to hear about us. They tell other people that
‘that church is devilish;’ unknowingly, some of the people they tell get
inquisitive and they will want to come here and see what a devil looks
like since they haven’t seen one before.
God has been using this as advertisement for us. Ninety per cent of
people who come here do so in the bid to come and verify what they had
heard about this church. When some of them get here, they will sit at
the back, fearing that they could be hurt. Some put on dark glasses or
disguise in a way that will not allow people that know them to recognise
them. But before the service is over, some of them will pick up their
bags and move to the front seats. They eventually become my prayer
warriors.
Let me tell you something that amazes me and that I always thank God
for – those who are with me are more than those that are against me.
They keep supporting me all over the world. I have more, more, more
people around the world. Whenever I say this, tears flow from my eyes
(sobs for a while).
These are tears of joy. I get so sad when I hear people’s confession
when their eyes become open to what God is doing here. Some say, “I wish
I had known this, my mum would not have died. She asked me to bring her
here but because of what I was hearing about this place, I refused
until she died. I hope that she will forgive me.”
On President Goodluck Jonathan’s involvement: When
it comes to relationship, I think he would be in the best position to
answer that question. Since what we are doing is creating impact around
the world, you should expect Nigeria’s president to also be part of it.
We are praying for the nation and being a Christian acknowledges it.
If Jonathan had been here, it would have been shown on our Emmanuel
Television network. No president has ever visited this place in secret.
The Bible says that if you confess me before men, I will confess you
before my father in heaven. I am not a witch doctor; we have nothing to
hide. If you have not read in the newspapers that your president came
here, then that is that.
Anytime presidents of other countries come here, Jonathan is usually
aware. If he doesn’t believe in what we are doing, he would have told
them that we constitute security risks.
On “instructing” the nation: I say it on the television and all over the world. I accept that is not enough; it is better to see him one on one.
But what is the essence of a President’s visit if he won’t follow
what I will tell him? This kind of trend keeps staining my name. I will
not mention anybody, when they leave here; they do not obey the
instructions.
What are presidents looking for in the church: The
reason why people visit a man of God is to receive instructions, his
opinion about them or their country. But if they don’t follow it, yet
the whole world knows that they are close to TB Joshua, it has no
benefit.
It is no big deal. Except they obey the counsel given to them, it has
no benefit. It is not something to be proud of. At least, seven
presidents have visited this place since inception. But each time
presidents come to this place, I get query from God. When they come
around, you won’t have time to attend to other people. They will block
the road with their security and at the end of the day, they won’t do
what you advise them to do.
On allegations that his generosity is what woos people to the church: How
much will I give to the president of a nation to come here? Even when
they come, I don’t get any financial gain but I incur cost because I
want to ensure that they are well cared for. That is all; I even prefer
to spend my time with the poor than to be with the presidents.
If a president visits this place today, the whole of the day will be
devoted to that visit, I would have lesser time for the poor people, who
need my attention. God has been warning me over this trend so much that
when some presidents said that they wanted to visit me, I said no. I
said it would be better for me to visit them in their countries. Each
time they visit this place, I receive query from God because of my time
that should have been used to attend to the poor and the needy that are
waiting for me.
One soul is not superior to the other, why should I continue to
receive query? Really out of three presidents that may visit, there will
hardly be one that will show good example of the counsel that they
received from me. If the needy are more receptive to God, it is better
to give them more of my time.
Why he still asks people to display the items given to them live on camera: We
do so to encourage other people to do likewise. Some of them are
physically-challenged or indigent people who do not even have bank
accounts, so we have to give them cash. We don’t want them to be duped,
but we don’t do that often anymore.
It is not a deliberate advertising.
Every man of God has his own habit. Habit is a gift from God. Like
Daniel, whenever he wants to pray, he will open his window, that is his
habit. The disciples of Jesus prayed six times a day; that is their
habit. It is not that we are showing off. When people see what we are
doing, they learn how to be good givers.
If you do everything privately, what will people write about? Jesus
fed the 5,000 people in the open, not in secret. That is why it could be
written. When the tax collectors came to him, he did not hide to say,
‘I don’t want them to see that they want to collect money from me.’ Even
when he healed a man and they asked him how he did it, he asked them to
go and ask the healed man.
On how God speaks to him: Faith must first be
in the heart before there could be an accepted confession. That means
faith must first be in the heart before there could be an acceptance of
prayer, request, talk from God. Faith is of man’s heart, which is
spirit. Heart literarily means a different thing from the spirit. You
use your faith to put a demand.
I use my faith to place a demand. You don’t understand what I am
saying. Let me put it this way, faith is a channel through which the
anointing flows. That means you use your faith to put a demand and ask
for whatever you want. If there is faith in your heart, you can close
your eyes and make a demand that you want to know what is happening
around the world and before you know it, you will see the vision.
There is what you call a measure of faith – deep, deeper, deepest
faith. I don’t know which level you belong. Faith grows as we hear the
word and obey it. We are not all at the same level, but all things are
possible to him that believes. What is possible for you may not be
possible for me.
On people believing he is not a follower of Jesus Christ, but a member of some other sect: We
don’t get power, it is faith we have. The power in our life is released
by faith through our mouth. The issue of getting power is wrong. We
don’t talk about getting power here. If you don’t have faith, power will
remain dormant. In Mark, Jesus said this kind won’t be possible but by
prayer and fasting. The disciples had power but lacked faith to release
it.
Nigerians cannot tell me who I am. The percentage of my people around
the world is more than those in Nigeria. I am celebrated around the
world. Go on the internet, Emmanuel TV is the most watched. Forget about
anybody, I don’t need to promote myself. Even Jesus could not win
everybody’s soul.
The word Christian is a title. How do you know that those people
talking believe in Jesus Christ when Christianity is a matter of the
heart?
That is what I am correcting you about; that someone said he is a
Christian doesn’t mean he is. If somebody says he belongs to this or
that fellowship, only God knows. It is not about confessing that I am a
prophet, a pastor, only God knows who is serving him. A mango tree
cannot bear coconut. What you believe radiates around you. I’m more than
that kind of confession. If anyone doesn’t believe me, they would when
the time comes.
Christianity is not an association. Let us talk about Christianity. I
don’t celebrate religion. I am a follower of Jesus; I am a Christian,
that is all I know. I will invite you to come and worship here this
Sunday. I am known by my love, not by my association, so whether
Pentecostal, Catholic, Charismatic, Methodist, who is serving God? I
don’t judge people but people can judge me. All I know is that my
persecution has been a blessing; I have been tamed by it. It has
strengthened me. I am a Charismatic.
I have told you about faith. You know that Elijah anointed Elisha,
but can you tell me who anointed Elijah? So you see God can choose to do
it the way He wants. Because I don’t want to hurt you, I don’t know
which circle you belong to, maybe your own pastor was anointed by a man.
On Jim Iyke: Oh please, don’t drag me into
that. All I can say is that if a person needs to see a doctor, he should
be free to do so. I like the young man. He has been defending himself
on the internet. Is he not enjoying a better life now? Are things not
working for him?
On his family members: I don’t expose my
family. I hear people saying that I don’t have a wife and that I have no
child. That is the news everywhere. You have seen my wife, and this is a
photograph of my daughter.
My wife is a very wonderful woman. She believes in receiving her own
call. She does not just want to hold microphone because her husband is a
pastor.
Men of God need to take care of their children. My daughter studied
Law she is doing her PhD in Harvard and she is coming back home to
preach the gospel. She loves to preach.
On his looks and if his wife is responsible: I love to
look good, too; it is 50-50 anyway. She has been a great woman to me.
She has been a great source of encouragement in the midst of my
challenges. She is different in the sense that she said I was the one
God called, so she is waiting until she is called by God to be a pastor.
That is unlike what most men of God do, they believe that once they are
called, their wives must be pastors too.
On when he is going to buy his own private jet: When one is at the airport to catch a flight, you see that many have become like Molue.
They could disappoint you by saying the flight has been cancelled. Even
when you eventually get on board, people keep thronging you for one
reason or the other. The person serving you the meal may be someone that
needs deliverance, by giving you food, she will deliver you.
There was an experience I had when travelling by air for a trip of
about nine hours. I was pressed but couldn’t go and ease myself because I
had to queue like other people before I could use the restroom.
Besides, I thought that some of those people could go to the toilet
immediately after I had used it in expression of faith, so I remained
glued to my seat all through the journey. That would not have been if I
was flying a private jet.
Or if you are a man of God that snores and they see the pastor
sleeping and snoring, they will think he shouldn’t snore. Meanwhile, he
is human. So a man of God should have a private jet if the situation
demands it.
If the use is for the church, the church should buy it, own it and
manage it. It should not be bought in the pastor’s name. When he is no
longer there, the jet remains the church’s.
On what inspired him to owning a football club: It is the desire to help people realise their dreams. There are other social platforms that we use to help people.
Is God not too busy to talk to him about that? The
same God speaks about everything. God is aware of everything. It is all
about the faith that you have; it manifests even in small things. We
need to know how much we need God.
Source: Punch Nigeria